The Feel Better Podcast: Ep. 2 - with Catie Pauley of “Flow by Catie”
Catie
Thank you for having me, I'm thrilled to be here.
Kristen Rivenbark
It's so funny how the power of social media, right? Because you're in Ireland, I'm in Los Angeles, California. And we met through an Instagram group, which is so crazy. Crazy.
Catie
that I feel like, like it leaves for me like sometimes my parents always like, like, social media like you guys and your social media. Like, I actually think it's so good because like, you can definitely have the toxicity of it all. But like, I mean, for me, like internet friends, I love it.
Kristen Rivenbark
I don't know if we're doing something differently. But I don't mind. Like, I don't have that issue, at least not yet. Where it's toxic or brings me down. Like, I feel like it's very inspiring. And I get a little bit more creative, like watching what other people are doing. And you get to meet like minded individuals. So I don't know, they were doing something.
Catie
I've actually noticed. So I have like, what I used to have my personal page, which was when I was 15, when I had when I started Instagram, I was like 15 or whatever, when it first came out. And you I mean, when I had it like, I mean, it's still there. I just don't use it. No, I had, like 10 years. So like, think of all that, like people you follow from when you're 15. So it got to the point where it's like going through a feeder, like, I don't even know half these people. I feel rude. I unfollow them. But like this is another constant I am dying to see. So when I made the yoga page, it was amazing. It's like starting from scratch. And now I love going on my page.
Kristen Rivenbark
Yeah, I think that's the trick is you have to reevaluate and kind of evolve your social media following because I kind of did the same thing. I have a personal account that I used when I started. And now I just use that for like family and highschool friends to see pictures of my kid. And then I use my Holistic with Kristen page for all the things I like. So I, you know, I want to talk about yoga and how you ended up doing yoga, teacher training and all that good stuff. But first, please tell us how you made the journey over to Ireland from Ohio. I love that you took that chance. I'm more brave enough because not many people will even move out of the town that they grew up in, let alone to another country.
Catie
So my story, the background I would say is for me in college. I went to college in Cleveland. So I grew up about 35 minutes outside of Cleveland and I went to college there and I was living on campus and stuff. I wasn't commuting. But in college I studied abroad in Galway Ireland, which was like the time of my life. I just had so much fun, my mom came to visit, like when I was leaving, and she pretty much had to drive me home kicking and screaming. I was crying the whole way I didn't want to leave, I had loved it. And I had been an Irish dancer growing up, which is so random. Yeah, so I always had some random connection to Ireland. Like, I don't know how but it just always happened. So suddenly, it's always like, gravitating me there. So coming to the end of my college most graduating, I knew I wanted to get my masters. So I was like, Where am I gonna go and I was like, you know where I want to study and has a Beach? California. I'm going to San Diego. So I moved to San Diego, fell in love with it. And the only people I knew out there because I moved where I didn't know anybody, were some people from Ireland that I had met during study abroad who had moved out to California. So I had moved out there and then eventually just kind of got connected with these Irish people and through them I met a guy, an Irish guy, and he had a cute little accent and everything. So I had - he's probably listening to another room being like, 'oh my god.' Anyway, I met him. And we were together there for like two years. And I was kind of like, so I'm coming back with you. You have no choice. I'm coming. So, I was like, you know, I knew I loved living in Ireland before. And I'm just somebody like I want to live all over the place and adventure and stuff like that. So I packed up and moved and I'm here! Thankfully my parents are chill. They might have had a harder time when I was like, bye! but yeah, so it's kind of crazy how it all kind of brought us together. We were actually at the same university in Ireland at the same time but never met. so crazy how life works out that way. But yeah, so it all started with a boy and that's how I'm here.
Kristen Rivenbark
That is amazing. I love that. Have you ever heard of Astro geography? Like where there's points like on the earth that you based on kind of your birth chart and when you were born and your astrological signs like there are certain points on the globe You feel pulled to and other places where you feel repelled by and everything goes wrong. And like, think about that.
Catie
You're like, yeah, so interesting. I totally agree. Because like, I, like I definitely don't feel like I love my hometown. It's great, but like I wouldn't I'm not connected to Cleveland. In fact, I really don't enjoy being there. But I couldn't explain why. I don't know why I never had any interest in living there. But like, again, I was always gravitated to Ireland and gravitated towards San Diego.
Kristen Rivenbark
Yes. If you look up on Instagram, Dara Duvinet. She was on a podcast and I heard this explanation. And it made perfect sense to me because I feel that way about my hometown in New Jersey, Philadelphia, the East Coast. It just never worked for me. And I always have this pull to Los Angeles, even LA specifically because we moved to Orange County, and it just felt wrong. It fell off and we moved back to LA. And I've never been happier. Like, there's just not, yeah, but like for other people. They don't feel that way. And you have this pool to Ireland, and you connected with Irish people and an Irish boy. And, you know, it's just like, it sounds a little odd.
Catie
Yeah. Like it wasn't anything. Like I guess it could all bring it back to different choices I was making and stuff. But it wasn't anything intentional. Like, I'm going to find my way. I mean, 16 year old me if I would have loved to hang out with an Irish guy. So definitely. But it wasn't anything I was doing intentionally. Like, it's easy, but that makes total sense. Yeah.
Kristen Rivenbark
I'm curious to see what you think if you check her out. She's just like, you know, yeah, that's your place. If you think you'll stay there long term.
Catie
I don't know. Like me we're both very, like we love to travel. And we love California. So I would say we could definitely see ourselves back in San Diego. We’ll see if I end up back there. But we're here for a few years anyway. And it's like, just such a fun adventure. And I, you know, waiting on my second dose of vaccine. So once I get that I'm often traveling Europe as soon as possible.
Kristen Rivenbark
So that you know, I think so many people get stuck in their own heads and are afraid to travel to move to do those things. And you did that at such a young age. And it seems like with very little hesitation, you were very eager to go. And I know for me, I was very nervous because I had never flown alone. And then once I was sent over to the UK for work. That was the first time I felt by myself. I've never been over that I did it alone. Once I did that, all of a sudden I was traveling everywhere by myself, I was moving to LA like it just opened up the floodgates you got like what do you think? What tips would you have for somebody who's afraid to take that step or could really benefit from that?
Catie
I would say like, my first thing is, don't think too much about it, just go for it. I'm such a person, like I am such a daydreamer. So I always kind of grew up dreaming about where I would end up and like having all these grand ideas and stuff. So it was always kind of in the cards for me, but I can definitely see, like, Oh my god, the feeling of when I was going to study abroad and the feeling like I'm very close to my parents. So the feeling of saying goodbye was excruciating. Like every goodbye is just horrible. Like falling in the airport. It's gonna be hard, but you kind of have to think about it like ripping off a band aid and there's so much more you can gain. When I came back I felt very, from my first time like when I was studying abroad, I came back home a very different person. I think I remember like family members and people kind of coming up to me after me like you're really like come into yourself after. I think like just knowing that, if you just take the step, just take it one baby step at a time, you will learn so much more about yourself than you ever thought possible. Just rip the band aid off, go for the first step and it will all fall into place and there's still gonna be hard parts but like it's it's so worth it. so worth it.
Kristen Rivenbark
I love that. I like that you made that point about allowing it to be hard in some ways but still doing it to reap the benefits on the other side like you can at the same time you can be sad to leave and also excited to go
Catie
Yeah, I think there's a - so one of my favorite books of all time is Eat Pray Love. So basic... I remember there's a line and I'm going to totally botch it. But she's like "the only thing scarier than leaving was staying. And the only thing like scarier than saying leaving" something like that. And I really do think it really resonates like yes, it's scary to go. But it's scarier to stay and stay the same. There's just so much more transformation. I had to go through all the sticking as goes through all the hard stuff. It's worth it on the end on the other side. And that's makes all the things the journey so much more beautiful as well the complexity of it all. So I say do it.
Kristen Rivenbark
Love that I love that anybody who's listening, take that first step, even if it's a road trip by yourself, just start to like, build that muscle. And you know if anything big rip off that band aid and just go now is the time.
Catie
Yeah, yeah, it can be impulse taking the day and saying, I'm just going to take myself on a date and go, maybe travel outside of your town or your city for an hour, like going on an hour long little road trip or something, and then spend the day somewhere, get lost and just be by yourself. And that's a great first step to kind of ease your way into it.
Kristen Rivenbark
And I'm gonna say it sounds like a perfect day. I love it. So at what point did yoga start to become a part of your life was that in San Diego was that when you move over to Ireland?
Catie
Great question. So it was kind of it's been in and out of my life for a long time. I think a lot of people have younger they're like, Oh, you go into phases where you're practicing it every day. And then maybe you stop for a few months or whatever. So very natural for to kind of come in and out. You're never really going to just dive in. Some people dive in headfirst never leave. But for me, that wasn't the case. So like I said, I was an Irish dancer, in high school, like all the way up, so
Kristen Rivenbark
Wait so... How is Irish dancing a thing at school outside of Cleveland.
Catie
So random! So well, I had done it. Like since I was a kid, I had a talent show when I was younger, and she was Irish dancing. I thought it was the coolest thing in the world. I was like, I need to do that. But the actual, like the world of Irish dancing in America is insanely competitive. And like I was training, like five times a week, I had a personal trainer, I was traveling all over the world for competitions, like it was it's insane. I know, like your turnout. If you don't if you're not familiar with it at all, like and I it's not massively California, but like, especially East Coast, Midwest would be really big for Canada would be really big for it. And then Ireland in the UK, massive and is so competitive is this crazy little world. Like, it's while they make reality. But essentially, I was so competitive with it. And when I was 17, I was kind of at the end of my rope, I was getting a bit injured. But mentally as well, it was so taxing, like my dance teachers, like they were just crazy. Like then they would end up just like shouting and yelling at you and stuff. And you're like a teenager, you're going through these transformative years and stuff. And, you know, you see it like with Olympic coaches and stuff like it happens, but like, it's unnecessary. It was just so intense that I was putting my body through so much. And I got to the point where like, I really started getting worn down and I got injured with my hip. When the doctor told me like try something light to kind of balance it out where I had to take some time off. So I started going to yoga classes. And I liked it. It was nice. And but it was so hard for me because I was like, so you're like able to do kind of do your own thing. There's no right or wrong. What is this? Because I restructured like military like style of practicing and stuff. And so I kind of got into it a little bit. But then, you know, I got back to dancing. And then I ended up leaving dance. And then I went to college and I didn't exercise one bit. I was like so john. I was I because I was like really like I was nearly underweight. I was like training so hard, is I got it. Sorry, I was Irish dancing, but like, that's how I attained insensitive. But um, so yeah, I went to college, and I was like, I'm done working out. Like, my body's been through so much I can eat whatever I want. I don't have to go to practice, I can have a social life, I can go to frat parties, I can eat unlimited on my meal plans.
So I just went to the opposite direction. I was so unhealthy. And my senior year of college, my mental health really suffered. So I deal with anxiety and depression. And it got really bad. And I started kind of coming back to yoga a little bit, I was like, let me just try something else kind of got into it. And then eventually, when I moved to San Diego, such a healthy lifestyle out there, you just kind of naturally go to yoga and my mental health was better at this point. But it wasn't, you know, perfect yet. Not that it ever is but like it wasn't where it is now by any means. So when I had gone out to San Diego, it's just you're much more inclined to go to do things like go to yoga and go to brunch and stuff. So I started doing that and I got really into it. And it made my anxiety and depression so much better. Like so did meditation and therapy, but like, it was another really helpful thing. So that's when I got really into it. But it was kind of a journey that brought me there like little bits of trying it here and there but it wasn't really until I was ready. I think like mentally where I was ready to kind of which sounds a bit cheesy but like ready to kind of go into that journey and be more committed to it. And like it pulls you in at the right time when you when you're most in the event. And for me it was like the only time I could go somewhere for an hour and I wouldn't think about my anxious thoughts or anything like that I would just shut off. It was a perfect time. And so since then I've been been a yogi. So I love it.
Kristen Rivenbark
Yeah, it is. It's such a spiritual practice to it's not just about the physical, which I do want to talk about. So you then continued your practice, moved to Ireland, and then embarked on your yoga teacher training. So you decided that, you know, it would be beneficial to share this with other people. And I think during the pandemic, especially you were able to do it virtually, which was so helpful. I attended a couple of your classes, which I love. Yeah, and, and, you know, I think I want to talk about the physical transformation that happens through practicing yoga. But can you speak a little bit more to the mental shift and the benefits there for someone who maybe is thinking about how they can incorporate yoga? Yeah, to all the other healthy habits, you know, to help with their mood and mental health?
Catie
Yeah, when I that's what I kind of like to encourage with most people, because when you think about yoga, like a lot of times, like we see this westernized version of people, Lululemon... my Lululemon pants are very nice, I do like them. But that's not what Yoga is all about. And it's usually a lot of skinny white girls. And that's just the fact. That's what you see. And so imagining it as it's hard for a lot of people to picture themselves in this world of yoga. So for me, I'm like, so hardcore, I'm making sure that everybody wants I want everybody to feel welcome. I want everybody to feel like yoga is so much more than that. It's not about taking the headstand pics on Instagram. For me, it's about the mental practice just as much as the physical but it didn't start that way for me started, you know, as another form of exercise, right? So, for me, I think what's most important is for people to understand that anybody can be a yogi, whether you are, you know, in a wheelchair, you can still be a yogi, right. So, yoga, the physical practice of yoga is only one part of what Yoga is. So there's, when you go on, I won't go too heavy into the philosophy, because I can talk about it for hours. But there are these eight limbs of yoga and this goes back. Centuries ago, in India, this guy Patanjali wrote these eight sutras and yoga, the physical practice, Asana is only one of the eight limbs, you also have meditation, you have breath work, you have all of this kind of other practices involved. And so when people are kind of nervous to try yoga, I always, I always want to say like, it's so much more than what you see, there's a whole other kind of lifestyle around it. And so the mental aspects, I think, is just so incredible. So it's really a lot about like non attachment. And you can kind of take that in different ways you can be like, Oh, I'm not attached to physical things. I'm a yogi, I don't have any physical belongings. Anybody who knows me knows, like, I love my makeup, I love like shopping, I am so attached to things. But it's more about like being non attached, I think to your thoughts into things that weigh you down things that are bothering you is being able to separate yourself to that and being able to connect with each other connect with nature, all of the physical postures in yoga are named after things like tree pose, or downward dog. So all these things in nature and life, and creatures and all that kind of stuff. So it's so much more. So a lot of it is about connection. And I think that was really helpful for me with my mental health, I was feeling so alone. And it made me feel like I was a part of something bigger than myself. But also something that wasn't super overbearing like a, you know, like a big organization or something like it's just a practice that people you can go into as much as you are as little as you want to. So I could ramble about it for ages. But I think it's really just a great way to kind of detach yourself from expectations, attach yourself from your thoughts, not all of your thoughts are gonna be good thoughts. So that's kind of a great acknowledgement as well, like, you don't have to believe everything you think. And it's all about connecting with each other. And it's so much more than just a physical, you know, Workout, which is a great like, I love it to workout as well. But you have a whole kind of way of life that you can really jump into if you wanted to, it can just be your one hour workout, and that's fine. But if you want more you can get that I think, which is really spent and almost
Kristen Rivenbark
sounds like the physical aspect of it is literally like just 1/8 of it. It's so important. What are the eight...?
Unknown Speaker
Limbs! Yes, the eight limbs of yoga. Yeah. And so they're like in Sanskrit, but just to kind of some of the basics I'll go into is you have your yamas and niyamas. So those are kind of your personal observances and rules. So one of them would be like Ahimsa, which is do no harm, pretty much so some people take that as being vegetarian or vegan. I'm not either of those things. It just doesn't work with my lifestyle, but I kind of take that as I do no harm in terms of my thoughts because I can be very hard on myself and I try to be kind to everybody else. giving people the benefit of the doubt all that kind of stuff. So what's cool about is you get to interpret it into your life anyway, really. So you've got yamas niyamas. And then you've got prana. Yama, which is your breath work, you have meditation, that's another one of the limbs, you have your Asana, which is your physical posture. And you've got, I'm gonna forget some, I'll leave some ...you have one that is kind of taking away your senses. So you can be more in tune to your, what's going on inside of you. And then the last one would be essentially Samadhi, which is enlightenment, which can be taken in so many different ways. Like, you could look at that as like Nirvana, or heaven. Or maybe it's just, for me, it's like being a better person I was yesterday, that's my like, form of enlightenment. So it's cool because you have these like structures that you can kind of interpret in many ways. And there's some, like branches of yoga, that would take them very literally. But like, for me, it's just kind of how I like to interpret it, and how I like to live my life. And that's very loose, like, but
Kristen Rivenbark
That's kind of the appeal, at least for me is that it's not super structured. You can take from it what you need, and what suits you. And you don't have to look towards this idea of perfectionism or five classes a week at, you know, orange theory, or how much weight are you lifting, like it's all very personal. And then be intense, physically, or it can be restorative. And I think that's so special, that there's always something that you can pull from and like you said, there's something for everyone at every level. And you don't have to be doing a headstand. And super skinny and you know, yeah
Catie
The first step is showing up on your right you can be in child's pose the whole time, you can lay down the whole time, you're coming to my class, you want to lay in child's pose the whole time. More parthia I love that, you will see me having a fade out I don't like to be upside out. And so like, I'm not an Instagram Yogi, in that sense. Like, I'm just, I get very emotional. was just, it's just whatever fits your lifestyle and you can go away from it. It's always going to be there for you. So if you want to take six months off, you want to take six years off of yoga, you can come back to it, it's it's that kind of change. It's gonna so.. yeah!
Kristen Rivenbark
so what type of yoga do you practice?
Catie
Lots of different kinds of yoga. Yeah, there's lots of different kinds. For me, I practice primarily vinyasa yoga, which is probably vinyasa and hatha would be the two main you main types of Yogi pricy and like Western practice, hatha would be a bit more slower, you're holding poses for a little bit longer. But vinyasa would be very quick. So it's brass to movement kind of sequences. And the kind of classes I like to teach and I like to take would be kind of, like sequential, so you're repeating sequences over and over again, and I like to add on a little bit each time. And the reason I like that style is because it kind of works as a moving meditation for me. So I can just kind of turn my brain off my body knows where it's going. And you can really just focus on connecting with your breath. And it can be really challenging. I like I love like I teach vinyasa, which is a lot of times, kind of the basis for power yoga, and my classes would be very strong. I like to push myself and work hard and work up a sweat, because that's how I get out of my head. But you can, you could do gentler vinyasa as well. But that would be my main type. I love to practice in yoga as well. It took me a long time to fall in love with yet the yin yoga, but Yang you're holding, it's a lot of times kind of confused. With restorative, you're holding poses and you're using like pillows and bolsters to support you, but you're holding them for like, five to seven minutes at a time. And it can be like it's so slow and I hated slowing down. I hated being a frenemy I needed. I needed Exactly. So I eventually found myself falling in love with it. And now I love you. And eventually I want to learn like God and teacher training, but I would practice that a little bit as well. But primarily vinyasa for me.
Kristen Rivenbark
love that. And I think that reminds me of, you know, the quote, and again, I don't know verbatim the quote, but it was something along the lines of, you know, if you are too busy to meditate, you need to meditate for twice as long or something to that effect, right. You also mentioned that as part of, you know, your practice, you indicate your teaching, is that kind of getting to that place of stillness as self care. So what do you mean by that when you say that?
Catie
Yeah, so like, for me, it's, I think it's being comfortable with doing nothing. You don't have to tell me much to be like, feel like Katie, let's take a timeout like sure. But it really is, I think being comfortable being on your own being comfortable being silent, because I think that's when you like, it's a form of listening to yourself, but your body needs. So taking the time to just listen. And whether that is just reading your book at night before you go to bed. If you're a morning person, which I am not, sometimes it's waking up extra early to watch the sunrise or something like that. It's just taking the time to be quiet, because I think that's when you kind of get in touch with yourself. Because I don't know, like, for me working from home and stuff during the day as well. Like, I feel like I'm constantly in conversation with myself. It was just me crazy talking myself on it, but like, never really listening. Do you know what I mean? Like you're you're not listening to what your body needs most of the day, because your mind is always thinking about something else. So I think the ultimate form of self care, yes, face masks and whatever, like, love it. That's great. But the the highest form of self care you can take is just to listen to yourself and to slow down and to say, Katie, how are you doing today? What do you need? Do you need a longer sleep? Tonight? Do you want to take some time off your phone like for me, I would be very like, like, I'm somebody like I would be very active on social media, but I am allergic to notifications on my phone. I'm horrible at texting people back. But sometimes I'm okay with that. It's just, I'm just gonna let the phone be there. Because I don't want to be distracted by anything, I just want to be in my own thoughts be in my own space. And that's a form of self care for me. So it's not always you know, what's marketed to you. It's really just about, you know, taking time to check in, and just be on your own.
Kristen Rivenbark
I love that. It's hard to do too, because we create that noise and it is a distraction. And then that becomes familiar. And it feels weird to sit with yourself and listen to yourself. It feels uncomfortable.
Catie
Very uncomfortable! And I think that's what people like, you need to get comfortable in the uncomfortable. That's where your transformation happens. And that sounds really like dramatic. But like, I think what does little one percents add up over time. And you can really see how much you've grown. I mean, seeing myself in the last few years since I started prioritize my wellness and my yoga journey and all that kind of stuff. Like all those they were small changes over a long period of time, but like I'm totally different than who I was years ago. So that that uncomfortableness that pays off. Like it really is two steps to becoming who your career meant to be.
Kristen Rivenbark
Yeah. What do you think has been the biggest transformation for you personally, since you really kind of committed to this practice,
Catie
I think being comfortable in who I am, has been massive, because when I started kind of, Okay, I'm going to be a little bit more healthy now is starting, maybe drinking a few more green juices here and there, I mean, not getting takeout as much or whatever. I was very worried about what other people thought I would say, up until a year ago, really got to me, you know, worrying about what former friends would think about me because you know, when you're growing and transforming, you're going to outgrow some friendships. And that's can be really hard. And you worry about what everybody's gonna think or what they see about you online, especially when you're putting yourself out there. You know, I'm a yoga instructor as a small business, whatever. It's it's very vulnerable. And I think I really struggled with that for a long time. But the biggest transformation, especially the last year is kind of embracing my truth. There's a term called Sacha in Bruce yamas and niyamas from, like, the philosophy of yoga, and that's truthfulness. And so that's one of the core values of, of yoga is being truthful. And it's not just like not telling a lie, but it's, it's living your truth and living authentically. So I really had to challenge myself to kind of embrace that. And it was hard and tricky. And I was so worried about what other people thought and I kind of, I think just slowly over time, within the last year, it just got easier. And a few times we had to be like, Catie, like it's okay. You don't have to worry about thinking it's not the end of the world. It would be the biggest transformation because I used to be so caught up in that. And that's part of my anxiety as well as worrying about what other people think of me and it's still don't get me wrong, I still care, but nothing attached to it as much, I think has been a major change.
Kristen Rivenbark
That's amazing. And it's the kind of thing that didn't just, you didn't just change overnight. It was those little things that you implemented those little moments of being uncomfortable, or letting something go maybe a knowledge thing that it bothers you but not subscribing to it and then a little you can now look back and say oh wow, all those little moments. Really cool. I'm pounded. Yeah, create a big difference in who you are.
Catie
Yeah, I think you've made a really good point by saying, like, acknowledging that it's there, I think that's the biggest step. And because it, you could easily get mad at yourself for realizing that you're, you know, it's uncomfortable or you're worrying about something. But I think just acknowledging it, and that's something like, whenever I'm like guiding a meditation, or in a yoga class or something, I'm like, if your mind's wandering, don't get mad at yourself, acknowledge that it is, it's happening with you, it's just natural, just let it go. You don't have to be attached to it, you can let it go, you can choose to kind of move past even if it's hard. So I think that's really beautiful how you put that you don't have to, you can just acknowledge it. And
Kristen Rivenbark
I always kind of think about those thoughts as like, you know, that when the airplane has the letters, like the message hanging from it on the flag, it goes like ... what it's called. But I always pictured my thoughts that way, like a product car, and they're like, there they go through the sky, like bye!
Catie
Yes that's exactly it like, and you could think about it as like clouds passing by like Polaroid. I think it's really awful to visualize that. Because then you realize, Oh, it's normal. I'm not like crazy, or I'm not bad for thinking this or whatever, like it's natural. Let it go.
Kristen Rivenbark
And you said in the beginning, your thoughts are not necessarily. They're not necessarily reality, just because something doesn't make it true.
Catie
yeah, that was a massive thing for me that it took me a long time on like therapy to help me understand because with my anxiety, like, the kind of way it manifests, for me is like, really disruptive thought patterns where it's something, whether I'm thinking something negative, or whatever, and constantly thinking about it, I can't stop thinking about it. And it's hard to get it out of my head. And it really, I really struggled with it at the beginning being like, well, if I'm thinking about this about myself, or whatever, it must be true. And then I kind of had to learn. No, this is just like, it's just the thought doesn't make it a reality. And sometimes you're like, one of my favorite phrases is like, an idle mind is the devil's playground. And that was something I really had to learn is like, not only thoughts are real or good, like, and that's okay. But you get so much power from yourself, when you realize I have the power to say no to these thoughts, and to kind of move past them. And just say, No, you're not going to control me today. Like moving on. So yeah, just because you think it doesn't mean it's true. I think that's the biggest thing like we can all learn.
Kristen Rivenbark
It's just so helpful, though. It's like such an awakening to kind of recognize that very limited. It is there's freedom in not allowing your thoughts to control you. And it's kind of like, you know, if someone says something that you know, is not true, you can easily think to yourself, Well, I know that's not true, and move on. And yeah, things like kind of maybe visualizing that brain and those thoughts as separate from you, in a way.
Catie
My therapist taught me when I was like, really struggling, like when I was in college. He was like, talk to yourself, like you're sitting in a chair across from you. Like imagine, like what you're thinking is being said to you right now? And like, would you accept that? And I was like, can they really teach you something when you're just that's pretty good. It's really helpful for me, like when I'm visualizing, visualize it coming from another human being, it makes such a difference. Yeah.
Kristen Rivenbark
That's a great little kind of trick, too. I think you mentioned something interesting about yoga kind of being perceived as like this skinny white girl doing a hedge. And there has been like, a lot of talk about the wellness industry being a little exclusive. And, you know, it can be kind of packaged in a way that is not only expensive, but also privileged. And I think that's an interesting thing to kind of think about, and it sounds like you, you know, make a point to be very inclusive, and to bring everyone into your classes. What are your thoughts on that? Because I think like, yes, like, you know, organic food, not everyone has access to organic food, or, you know, classes, not everyone can afford a class. How do we approach that in a way that it becomes more accessible for people so that they can take what they want from it. And I think more importantly, feel as if it's for them.
Catie
I love that you mentioned this because I could talk about this all day. I was reading like I did some like yoga fundamentals workshops, a few months back, and I actually spent quite a bit of time going over like the appropriation of yoga and I learned a lot of it from my mentor, her name's Monsy. And she's amazing. And she's from India. And so talking to her a lot, and she does a lot of work in terms of like the appropriation of yoga, and that was really passed on to me. And it was really helpful for me to kind of look at myself honestly, and be like, Catie, you are that skinny white girl in your Lululemons doing your headstands like, I am 100% that girl, you know. And it's interesting because like, even though I am, you know, that kind of mode. When I started yoga, I walked in, I was so intimidated, I felt like I didn't belong there. Even though I was a skinny white girl and Lulu lemon, which is wild, like we can all, you know, feel that way. So imagine somebody who's less privileged, or who maybe has a different skin color or this from a different country, imagine how they feel. And so that is something I think, is really, it's a discussion that needs to happen, because we're profiting off of it. And we're profiting off of, you know, I'm profiting off of Indian culture, you know, yoga comes from India, you know, when we're profiting off of, you know, ashwagandha supplements, and I, yeah, comes from all these other countries and stuff, but we act like we're revolutionizing it, because, you know, we're from California!
So I think the first step is to have the conversation, because, and to be honest about it, and not to have our defenses up, I think it's easy, you know, for, for, like, when I see like cultural appropriation in yoga, I could easily be defensive and be like, I have every right to teach yoga so much as everybody else like. And that's true, like, everybody has a right to teach it and whatever. But I think the important thing is to not have your defense up, and to knowledge where everybody else is coming from, and to just have the conversation. So I think, you know, when I talk about, I want people in my classes to feel welcome and to feel inclusive. For me, a lot of that comes from body image of body size as well. Because yes, I am a skinny white girl. But I also have had, you know, issues with body dysmorphia, and stuff like that. So, even though I'm not a bigger girl, I still dealt with that. So I can't imagine, you know, if I were bigger, and I was dealing with those struggles, you know, it'd be even more challenging. So I want everybody to feel welcome. Because it can feel very isolating. So for me, it's just about some of the language I use, and which I use and just being honest, like, you can like, like, I like everybody's strength level is different. I say, in my classes a lot. Don't look at the person next to you look at where you are, we're all experiencing today in a different way. We all have different bodies, we all have different backgrounds. And somebody might be in a splits, but they might not be as healthy as you are and stuff like that, like. So I think it's just the language we use. And it's being open enough to have the conversation and making sure that we're not like checking our own bias and checking the fact that you know, it's very easy to get defensive about it. But the best conversation happens when we're kind of open and honest with each other.
Kristen Rivenbark
love that. I love that this is a discussion that it's knowledge Do you know and even for me, it was kind of like oh, Hmm, I hadn't really thought much about that. I was excited about like the fact that it hasn't even come to mind until recently when I've been you know, hearing and reading a little bit more and really kind of thinking about that in the way that I approach my health coaching too because yes, I have access to you know, the LA lifestyle I have a juice bar in every corner I have friends I have yoga and pilates. But I have clients who live elsewhere who there's no Whole Foods they don't have a Ralph's, they don't have a Trader Joe's like and if you order Amazon, you better have a friend who lives in a city who can you can have it delivered to you because you live out in the middle of nowhere in a country. Like Yeah, you're not kidding like your cocao nibs prime delivered for next day
Catie
That is a privilege that I didn't even realize I had until just now like I've been that person!!
Kristen Rivenbark
I think you know when you said is just being aware and be open to that conversation to because I may not realize something you may not realize something but when it's brought to you to actually take that in toil with that of jumping to well, you know, I chose to live here I've moved across the country and I spent a lot of money to live this lifestyle and you know, I made that choice. That's ridiculous. So I love that
Kristen Rivenbark
I love that you raise that vibe in your classes and I think that's just so beautiful. Yeah, what what recommendations do you have for somebody who maybe is interested in maybe is listening and it's like I really like the way this sounds, I want to start yoga I'm scared to go to a class, or maybe things are just starting to open up together, they're not what would you say are kind of some tips to getting involved and getting that practice.
Catie
I would definitely, I would go with one of two approaches. So for me, like I love in person classes, and I think they're so fun, but I know that you might not live close enough to a yoga studio, or you might not feel comfortable going to a yoga studio or you're afraid of not even knowing what a downward dog is. So, but for those who want to start in person, I would say pick. Find a friend go make a day of it, you know, go on a Saturday morning, go to yoga and then go to brunch. Again, that's it like practicing for music, you might not have that nearby, but if you do, it's an option for you. Do it, it'll make it so much more fun and you can laugh at each other if one of you guys is like facing the wrong direction or doesn't know what's going on, it can be like, it's more, much more comfortable and you're going with somebody else so. What a start in person, that would be my recommendation, and maybe even introduce yourself to to the yoga teacher beforehand and say I'm new, I don't know what I'm doing, they can keep a lookout for you like if someone were to come up to me before one of my classes and said that I would make sure, like I love working with new Yogi's because I remember how I felt, you know, being scared going into new studio so I want to make sure you feel comfortable. If that's not really feasible for you or not really, you know, what you want to start with, I would say find an online yoga teacher or there's a lot of great classes on YouTube, or find somebody online one of the great things that I found was locked down. Obviously it was five it was able to start teaching online, which is great, but a lot of my students had found me through Instagram or something, and they've never done yoga before and it was a great way for them to start, because they were able to reach me outside of, you know, class, to ask me questions, which was great. And that we were able to kind of build a community so it was less intimidating, so you have that more personalized approach than you know if you were just looking on YouTube. YouTube is a great place to start, I would say for anybody start there. But finding somebody you can kind of build a relationship with and find a community with is great. There's so many yoga teachers out online. You can find someone in your timezone and in your area and stuff and Bill love it, you're supporting somebody small, rather than a big YouTube, you know, teacher, or whatever, which I think is great. but then you also have somebody to ask your questions to. They're going to come up, you're going to have questions and having somebody approachable, I think is, is great to have.
Kristen Rivenbark
It's that more, more of a personal kind of interaction, even if it is virtual, where can everyone find you and your classes that they want to start and can make it work but the times at which you can, I've done it.
Catie
I would say like the best thing I've done is make all my classes available for recording, because that was so helpful because I friends from home were like, I want to take your classes but I'm not gonna wake up at 5am. So that was almost all my classes are available for recording which is great. And so you can find me on Instagram @flowbycatie I spell my name with a C so @flowbycatie, and then all my names for like classes and stuff are all on there, my website's fowbycatie.com so I'm currently making some things in the work for fall for some new classes so keep an eye out for it. Yeah, and if anybody has yoga questions or non yoga questions I'm always around for a chat so just messaged me, I'm always there. So yeah, thanks for having me!
Kristen Rivenbark
love it I love that we've touched on a lot of different areas and not just the yoga and the physical practice and the mental health benefits of it and the inclusivity that we're trying you know hopefully trying to promote I just love it. Yeah. Such a breath of fresh air. Thank you so much for joining us, and I highly recommend your classes I loved the energy I loved your class, you did it on the balcony super early in the morning and it was just, it felt so good for the rest of the day.
Catie
Oh, thank you. Thanks so much!
Kristen Rivenbark
Thanks for listening and I hope you enjoyed the show, be sure to rate and review and also follow along on Instagram @holistic.w.kristen and I'll see you soon.
